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Ashley
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Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 84
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TimothyHughes wrote:
In my market the going rate for a single editorial portrait [local print mags] is around $200. For national publications it's around $400. Most publications state their budgets right off the bat in correspondence.


Editorial use means you are being asked to produce & provide images for them to use for:-
Media use: Editorial feature in named magazine only.
Period of use: 30 to 60 days from 1st publication date.
Territory of use: State of .... and / or one country only.

That is considered to be less than Standard use - so the Licence fee for the use of your images, would therefore be less than your standard rate i.e. you give them a discount - based on their usage requirements of your images.

What Shanekislack has been asked for here is very different to that. Shanekislack has been asked to produce & provide images for them to use for:-
Media use: Any & All Media.
Period of use: Unlimited years.
Territory of use: Worldwide.

This would imply they need these images for a multi million dollar, worldwide, advertising campaign... and one that will run for at least the next 5 years.
Which means these images will need to be Wow... to meet this client's needs.
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Ashley

Ashley Morrison
http://www.ampimage.com
http://www.ashleymorrison.com


Last edited by Ashley on Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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K.C.
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Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 183
Location: Santa Barbara

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashley wrote:

The difference between a truly amazing image and a snap-shot, is usually to do with the budget - and their budget is usually determined by their usage requirements.


So Ashely how would you compare the value of the video work you've been shooting with a DSLR compared to that of a true videographer ?

For example, in the work I've seen you zoom into a shot where a video pro would set a track and roll into the shot while maintaining the same focal length/angle of view with the camera.

However in the compromised market we all compete in DSLR still shooters are suddenly calling themselves videographers and the quality, or lack there of, of there work is largely determined by lack of budget and experience.

Interesting conundrum isn't it ?
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shanekislack
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Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 212
Location: dallas

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TimothyHughes wrote:
In my market the going rate for a single editorial portrait [local print mags] is around $200.


And why is this? It's because people will do it for $200. There's never a shortage of guys who will do it cheaper. And it's bullshit! (excuse my language and punctuation)

Let's do a little math of the cost of doing an editorial shoot. We'll make it a half day...for a professional shooter...hard cost first

$100 Camera value (based on rental values)
$40 Lighting rental (two heads and a pack)
$25 Liability insurance
$10 Car expenses (gas/milage)
? Assistant
? Medical Insurance
? Self Employment Taxes
? Accounting
? marketing/website
? Other gear (computer/high speed internet)
????? Personal salary/Fee

soft cost
? Building a "selects" gallery to make their choice
? Retouching/processing
? File delivery
? Storage/Archive
? Billing


As you can see, even if the cost of living is low, you're still losing money to shoot a $200 editorial job. Add the fact that they want to pay 30-60 days after publication...you're subsidizing their magazine. And you HAVE to take all of those costs into consideration if you are operating a professional business. It just isn't possible, mathematically, to do otherwise.

So we've lost hard money to shoot this job and now let's figure that after we shoot the job we have to edit the shots, build a gallery, correspond with the photo editor, retouch/process "select", somehow deliver the file, bill the magazine, take the check to the bank and cash it. Now our half day shoot has easily turned into a full day worth the work.

Now, you can say "well, I already own the camera and I wasn't going to be doing anything else that day". That's a valid point for a hobbiest, and you may be able to do that once in a while, but no business in the world can operate that way.
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Ashley
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Joined: 27 Feb 2010
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Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shanekislack wrote:

And why is this?

So we've lost hard money ...

If you are agreeing to work for hire, then that may be true.
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Ashley

Ashley Morrison
http://www.ampimage.com
http://www.ashleymorrison.com


Last edited by Ashley on Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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shanekislack
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Joined: 04 Sep 2008
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Location: dallas

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do have a point, Ashley. Access and subject can have a value all in itself. Unfortunately most of the time it does not. And even if you sell it 7x over...if you are selling it for $200 every time, you'll probably never make any money off it.
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Ashley
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Joined: 27 Feb 2010
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Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="K.C."]
Ashley wrote:

So Ashely how would you compare the value of the video work you've been shooting with a DSLR compared to that of a true videographer ?


Our YouTube videos are nothing more than a simply slide show - which we use to market ourselves in a fun sort of way.
Their value to others is close to zero as a result.

So they don't compare at all to the work of a "true videographer"... at this stage - which is why we don't even try to charge for them.
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Ashley

Ashley Morrison
http://www.ampimage.com
http://www.ashleymorrison.com
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Ashley
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Joined: 27 Feb 2010
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Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shanekislack wrote:
..if you are selling it for $200 every time...

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Cheers,
Ashley

Ashley Morrison
http://www.ampimage.com
http://www.ashleymorrison.com


Last edited by Ashley on Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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shanekislack
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Location: dallas

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I have the constitution to give away original photography on the hopes that someday I'll make a little more off them. But I get you point.

There's no reason I can't relicense good images AND get paid decently for the original assignment.
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