thinking about creative fee pricing
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Leslie
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An assigned piece of work is not a WMFH in MOST cases and should not be treated as such. You are splitting things (imo) dangerously.
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Leslie
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashley wrote:

On the Quote it would say this was my hourly rate or Day rate fee.


One must not bill day rates or hourly rates on this side of the pond. That business model went out about 20 years ago because it is so economically unsound for the photographer.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well i got totally confused when I lost track of who you, you and you are and the painting above the couch, reproduced 10,000 times... Confused
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Ashley
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leslie wrote:
That is NOT the way the business works here and that is not a sustainable business model. I disagree most strongly with your practice and discourage the other members of this forum from following it.

Came across this the other day - which I thought would be of interest to some of you:

Licensing Guide by the American Society of Media Photographers...
Quote:
"There is no "one true way" to structure your fees. Some photographers separate creative fees and licensing/usage fees, while others combine them into one number."


Personally, I prefer to 'combine them into one number', because I find it's simpler & easier for clients to understand what the fee is for i.e. I will be invoicing them for the use of my work (after I have created the images), rather than for me to do the work for them (has the images will already have been created by then).

So beforehand when I'm quoting, I simply agree to produce and then provide them with some images for them to use as agreed, for the fee I'm quoting - and so after I have produced the images, then I would bill them for providing them with those images, for them to use as agreed, for the amount stated on the invoice - and then I would provide them with a Licence to use document to confirm this agreement like so...

.. as that's really all I'm asking them to pay me for.
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Last edited by Ashley on Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:46 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Gordon Moat
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends a bit upon the client. Some of the corporate clients I have do not have a formal art department, and many of them prefer a very simplified proposal and invoice. A few clients want more details, or at least expenses broken out of the overall fee. As much as possible, I try to fit within client expectations. I treat them fairly while treating myself fairly.
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Ashley
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell me - have any of you ever had a client look at your production costs - and tell you that you need to charge them more for that line-item - or that you need to add more line-items, to cover other things that they feel you should be billing them for ?
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Last edited by Ashley on Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gordon Moat
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Proposals state fees plus expenses, but there are no listings of expenses. On the Invoice, if the client request it, I can list certain expenses. These are done after the shoot is over, so there is no aspect of them requesting to eliminate an expense. My best guess is that their accounting department wishes to know the break-out of expenses, which is the only reason that information was requested.

Over the last three years, some clients have requested whether there are ways to reduce their cost for a shoot. Realizing that not every company has a limitless budget, I see no problems with working with any client to keep shoots affordable to them, while being profitable for me.

Sometimes I might suggest ways to reduce expenses, like changing props, using different talent, or picking a location that might be less permit or crew expense ... everyone might want the supermodel and the Ferrari, but if the concept can be accomplished within budget using an aspiring actress (waitress?) and a Corvette, then I don't see any problem with that.

We are chosen for our abilities to visually interpret ideas and concepts, and few of us will wind up with clients for whom money is no object. When a client has less to work with (less than the budget of the Federal Reserve, for example), then I would prefer to work with them, rather than tell them to hit the road. Obviously I have a lower limit under which I will not take on a project, but beyond that I feel that negotiation is part of the process.

P.S. - all in good fun with my exaggerations. Laughing
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Frank Nagy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon, well outlined post. Your way of looking at assignments shows a thoughtful way of doing business, especially with the concept "I try to fit within client expectations. I treat them fairly while treating myself fairly." well said, a good way of doing business.
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bluehouse
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for sharing your important discussion topic. I like to gain knowledge by these kind of forums.
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Gregman
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashley wrote:
Tell me - have any of you ever had a client look at your production costs - and tell you that you need to charge them more for that line-item - or that you need to add more line-items, to cover other things that they feel you should be billing them for ?

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Mike
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gregman wrote:
Ashley wrote:
Tell me - have any of you ever had a client look at your production costs - and tell you that you need to charge them more for that line-item - or that you need to add more line-items, to cover other things that they feel you should be billing them for ?


Yes I have a few times - about 8 years ago a buyer called up after we submitted the estimate and said we need to add in an additional $400,000 into the estimate in order to be competitive with the other bids.

It doesn't happen often and its sometimes really difficult to figure out how to add in all that extra money - but very grateful what the buyer calls and offers up such info.


You were $400,000 under on a bid... Shocked
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