Fashion photo sessions.
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Bob MacDonald
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:58 pm    Post subject: Fashion photo sessions. Reply with quote

Here's something that I'd like to see discussed by someone who does a lot of Commercial shooting with models. (Hint:Brooks)

How would a typical project evolve from start to finish, working for a new or old client? What questons are they asking and what would your answers be?

I once asked this of a very well known Portrait Shooter, who told me to buy his next book! So.....if I'm asking too much to be covered in a forum like this, just let me know.

Even though I'm the "Supreme Old Fart".....I'll understand. Wink
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Last edited by Bob MacDonald on Wed May 24, 2006 12:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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StephenCMW
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done a lot of the work you asking about, but not sure what info you are looking for. Are you looking specifically about the exchange of Q/A regarding the model for a shoot, or about the entire process from initial phone call, to getting a signed agreement, or final project completion?

I'm more than happy to help, and you don't have to wait for my book either Smile Just need to understand what you are after since I could spend an hour typing in a project from start to finish!
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Bob MacDonald
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Stephen....
I guess I'm asking a little much....but; was just curious as to what the initial questions (and your answers) of the new client might be concerning the shoot.

As in....."Hi Steve, Joe Smith here...AD for "Great Lips" lipstick. We're interested in using your services for an ad campaign to promote our lipstick. Do you provide the models, or do we have to hire them? How long a session would be involved to produce three great shots?

What about a stylist? Do we have to provide one or do you?"

This is kind of what I was asking about.

Thanks,
Bob
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Craig Murphy
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am certainly no fashion photographer but I did attend a seminar with fashion photog Claudio Basso. My take on the stylists is that choosing who becomes the makeup person and who becomes the clothing/prop stylist is a collaborative effort between the client and the photographer. Maybe the photog has worked with people that would fit the bill for a certain shoot and maybe the client wants to use someone that they know will work well with them. I think the client would be paying any stylists seperately though.
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Brooks Ayola
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I swear I'm going to get to this question, but I'm shooting today, so I'll try to chime in later. :-)
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, this is how it usually works here. I'll pretend that the client has no clue.

First off, after the initial questions in Bob's Joe Smith scenario, I would suggest that we first talk about the cost of using models so there are no surprises. I generally try to find out if the client has a budget, but let them know that models (depending on their experience and what agencies we contact) can vary quite a bit in price, but to generally expect to pay at least $1200.00 for a model to do cosmetics. This can be skimped a bit, but I wouldn't suggest skimping on models since they will become the face of the company for at least a year. I educate them on the addition of agency fees (plus 20%) and then move on to casting.

First I try to get an idea on what type of models they want. When I figure that out, I tell them about having a casting day at my studio or their office if I have to. I charge them for the day and pad it enough to take care of my time dealing with the agencies before hand. I contact the agencies I think fit best with the job and get as many comp/zed cards sent to my studio as I can. I edit the cards down for the client and then let them decide from the cards which models to call in for a casting.

At the casting I shoot a couple digital frames of each model against white and at the end I put up a quick Photoshop gallery so the client can peruse at their leisure for a few days to help them make a decision.

Sometimes I find it important to have the hair stylist or makeup artist there to look closer at the hair or skin to point out any possible issues, but usually they don't need to be if the client knows their product well enough.

As far as billing goes, I have the agency bill the client as it's usually too big of an expense to pay out of pocket and wait forever to get the money back when you get paid. I don't want any advances to go towards models. Depending on how expensive hair and makeup is, I may pay for that and mark it up then bill the client.

Speaking of that. I try my hardest to work with makeup, hair and wardrobe people that I'm used to. I have, in the past, shown portfolios of my favorites to the client to reassure them, but it's usually not an issue. Hair care clients are the usual exception as they always have hair stylist associated with the company in some way. Also, my best cosmetics client is owned by a makeup artist and she always does the makeup and hair.

Anyway, this is how I usually work, but I'm sure there's something I missed.
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Bob MacDonald
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow....

That's exactly what I was curious about! Thanks, Brooks for taking the time to go into all of that. Cool

I've always wanted to watch a session like that, and was curious as to all that was involved.

When I grow up....that's what I'd like to do! Wink
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StephenEastwood
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, first off I am new here but figure this may be a great thread to start in since its pretty much all I do now a days.

I will start by saying I was so tempted to read what Brooks has posted, but before I read his routine I figured I would post my own typical scenario and than read his to see what I should be doing differently.

I will walk you through very different but very normal shoots. I should start by saying I rarely take on clients directly, and most have gone through my rep and pricing and negotiations are all thought out and determined based on media buy and usage. But that said I do have several long standing clients and often they recommend or schedule a shoot for themselves or a friend of theirs that falls outside my reps territory or under the pre-existing client exemption. In those cases, I start by telling them what an initial budget would have to be to even get me and models like what I usually shoot with for a basic ad and or POP or billboard, signage, brochure. That often scares many away right off the bat, and that's sort of designed that way since its really more a long conversation only to get to some unrealistic numbers that fall short of not my but the model alone's rates and mine are two to three times whatever that would be to start. Better to cut that whole thing off or get it out of the way. If they feel the budget I am starting at is within reason, and we discuss the product and I ask about a media buy they generally have a sense of what numbers we will be talking of.

The initial talks decide exactly what the usage and media buy and placement and term will be. Once that is all done and a basis for pricing fairly exists I ask if they have a concept or design or an ad firm doing some layouts? At this point I kind of know the answer will be no since if they had an ad firm they likely would have already been included in discussions. So once we establish this we move to a point of concept. I am not a creative, I do not want to be creative, I came from a psychological and philosophical background, with studies in linguistics and I had been an instructor of clinical and medical hypnosis, all that has lead my brain to work in a somewhat de constructive mode. I like to see what's there and break it down and determine all the problems and potential issues that need to be fixed, I typically ignore the good points as I know they will still be there regardless and focus on what and how to best fix whatever is wrong or needs correcting to get the point across. That's what I am best at, and I explain that if I am to be in any meetings 1) I cost a lot to be there since it is really not at all needed, and I do not like being at them until a few final concepts are ready to go, and 2) if I am at any meetings, I am never to be taken as being negative, but I will be the devils advocate on everything and point out every flaw and issue and thing that someone might find a problem and perhaps even there find an issue but be afraid to say since its more a cheering squad of yeah everything is great lets go get em types and I am not since I will be the one answering the phone when someone is not happy with the way it came out in the end.

If all that goes well, and it usually does, we move onto my suggestion which is to have some creative's of mine or theirs work together and come to no less than 5 concepts and no less than two explanations that everyone in the hire up chain of command feel are the target market. Than call me and I will be more than happy to rip them apart and fix it all and make a good ad for them. That's where they really like me!

So in they come with several ideas and layouts and a few paragraphs about who the target market is and I listen to the target market and if I have any I ask questions about it, demographics, etc. Than I look at the comps they have drawn and decide which I hate the least and start to tell them what I see wrong and we have a discussion where they usually all sit around and say things like oh yea, and oh I did not think of that, and yes. You all have this happen, maybe you see something and are afraid to say it and than eventually it comes out and you think I knew that all along... Well I am there to be a pain that day so I say it out loud so I expect and do fully believe most when they say I knew that since I bet most did and were just a little afraid to say it.

OK, so now we have a budget and an idea and a sort of mock up layout. We start the model process, I determine the full usage and possible extras, and call (email) agencies the default casting requirements and pricing as a plus twenty number so they know exactly what the full bill must fall into.

We get email comps or packages from the agencies, it use to be real comps but now that's so impractical instead we get an email with a link to whoever is available, and from them we can see the model whole book online. I sort through and remove the ones I do not want, and send along everyone else which would be anyone I like and anyone I am indifferent to all together and all the same. If there is any real standout that I really think needs to be considered I would mention it, but that is very, very rare as it only opens yourself up to problems later on if anything goes wrong. Learn one thing on huge or small or any budget cover you behind, and be aware that the day after all is said and done if the bill payers are unhappy and start yelling you should only have to answer to one thing, photography! If they hate the model chosen, and say who picked her? hope its not you... and hope you did not recommend her...in fact your best answer would be I don't know who was that? if they hate the make up and hair same thing! hope its not you. And all the way through say how easily that can all be fixed in post (at potential extreme rates) but if its not you those rates are justified, if its you your now ripping them off for fixing what you screwed up and that does not sit well. I can say this has never been needed and I still live by these rules because I know several who were better than I who had these very things bite them in the but and it caused years of issues rebuilding a pricepoint. So I prefer to think ahead and plan ahead and make sure everything goes super smooth from the get go.

Now once you find the right models from the cards there may or may not be a go see, where the models selected actually come in, I am rarely ever there and do not really care, I have a saying and its not based on arrogance its based on my ego that would not let it be wrong, If she has not changed dramatically since the image was taken, I can make a model look at least as good as the best shot of her in her book! whether that is through photography, lighting, corrective make up and hair placement, shadows, or retouching, I can and will. This does not mean I will produce the best image in their book, that may not be possible since they may have a shot hanging form the Eiffel tower where a three story high Oscar de la Renta gown while being showered by Swarovsky crystals, yes that's a bit hard to beat if they give me a sweater and a white wall to shoot her on, but I will be damned if she does not look as good or better than she looked in that shot! Well at least to me Smile

So we then start at the artist reps, I point out any artists I have worked with and some I prefer over others, and let the client start to choose from several or any of their own preference, if they choose one I look at their book, but have never had reason to object as of yet.

Day of the shoot, we have a basic concept and idea in mind and a model shows up and starts in make up and hair and we all hangout for an hour to two, and breakfast is ordered (I do not eat anything at shoots ever, and bring my own water, I am very strange, don't ask) but everyone else eats some and we look at the designs or clothes or jewelry, depending on the shoot, and I look around at where and what I will be shooting, and if its a rental place everything is there, and if I am bringing things I have a grip or two that basically carry my equipment in and hang out all day and than take it out. I typically like to unpack things while make up is being done, and we all sort of talk and get to know one another and make some jokes and get a few little references to some funny and interesting scenes in the models life and sort of establish rapport and most important get a few referential jokes or things that when mentioned can bring a smile to their face. This is mainly just for reference, and I use them wisely to get a glean in the eye and a smile on the face and to break up any thought that they are not looking perfect in front of the camera.

Than I set up my lights around and play a bit, years ago we polaroided, now that's not an option, and I generally will have but don't use a light meter, I eyeball everything and play with the computer and my personal laptop and make sure that they are ready to go, if we have digital tech's they mainly have two jobs. On very larger shoots, one will be responsible for one thing and one thing only, to make sure everything is taken in and backed up to 5 external hard drives this is automated on my systems so I bring 5 external drives, he pretty much has to insert a card, press three buttons and it backs up to all 5, once the 5 are backed up he can transfer the files on the proof drive to a networked folder, the others stay as they are, when he has time he can burn DVD's but that is not a priority. This is my personal tech, he is my personal tech!!!!!!! I tell him and I tell everyone that he is responsible for all the money so he is not allowed to answer to anyone but me, not the client, not the model, art director, creative director, no one and if anyone approaches him he has one line to repeat, I am not allowed to show or really even talk to you please ask Stephen! that is so I know I do not have to worry about missing a file the day after the shoot, and that is his job, he will likely be bored, and I do not care if he brings a play station portable, ipod, sits on the Internet on my other laptop or does most anything so long as he is doing nothing but guaranteeing that I have all my files. My other tech gets the files on his system once they are transferred to the networked folder and we can all see them, generally I look through and pick one or two I like, and he or I do a real fast convert, retouch, and drop into the layout in Photoshop, than call the AD or CD or whoever they have there over and show them a corrected and slightly retouched shot before they see anything else. This way if the girl has bad circles under her eyes and make up can only do so much they do not look at that first, instead they see a beautiful looking face and say WOW, than see the others and if they comment we immediately show them what goes away and explain what a simple issue that is, not to worry, If you think this is a waste of time just look at this and then the link following two links, (don't look around there now, you can go back later and click index or nest, just check these two and you'll get the point of what a 4 minute and 30 second retouch can do, and tell me its not worth it to show them one before the other Link one http://photographersportfolio.com/retouchingsample/hy5k1120af.htm Link two http://photographersportfolio.com/retouchingsample/hy5k1120bf.htm

No that is not a client shoot, and I hope I would never have to do that if I did the casting and make up people are all in trouble and I will have already been taking a quick bathroom break to call the client and say that we have a problem, and we will need to fix it but its all good! Smile


So now that they see and have a reference we proceed with whatever we have to deal with and the shoot goes well.

End of shoot, at times, and for certain clients I will sit and run through the files selecting which they like and would like to consider, those will be rendered from raw and uploaded that evening or next day. Other times I go through and eliminate any I feel are worthless and render and upload the rest for them the following day.

Why all the hard drives? Well one I take with me in my pocket, one stays at the location (if its a rental studio or rental space of some sort) to be picked up at a later time, one goes in my camera bag, one goes in my computer case, and one goes with the digital tech to be burned to DVD or backup up or depending just to hold onto to make me feel better. I am a little paranoid? no, not really, I am not concerned about loss, but the drives cost 99.00 for a 120 GB or larger external usb2 drive, and they are reusable for a relatively long time, I would like to be over safe and happy I spent the 500, than wishing I was not so cheap I only had two copies, when something seems to be out of place. And yes I often keep the cards un erased as well, but that's never a given, and they can easily be lost so its like an extra, extra, extra backup Smile . And as a side note, I have had a shoot where we shot close to 2500 shots over a few days, the selects were chosen down to one from each look, a total of 60 shots and from that wouldn't you know it one of the raw's did not open, it was corrupt, the simultaneous jpg opened fine and luckily I always shoot both raw and jpg when I have a camera that allows it and the first thing I do is set the jpg to the largest and best compression (least compressed) and no sharpening, generally mid to low saturation and contrast. So it takes up space, what are cards costing these days?

Now we are doing more backups on several live servers and DVD plus bluray DDS, I trust the bluray but I do not trust that the format will ultimately be victorious so that is in my mind a problem waiting to need to be rebacked up in the future. But still 50 gigs per disc is nice and convenient.

Afterwards a group will be selected, and the final picks will go through a real quick overview and retouch, afterwards the client sees a large preview, and make any markups they may want as far as retouching and changes to anything, logos need to be switched, colors that need matching to different samples, etc, and that is done and files are burned for them as flattened tifs and DVD burned, generally pdf are used for layouts to any graphics work and prepress is done and prepared for ad placement.

That's a long expensive large budget shoot.

Now for a smaller budget, but equally important shoot.

This is a call from a major camera manufacturer, they need some trade show posters for light boxes shot, the whole office is basically at another trade show in Vegas, its needed to be in to a lab in manhattan for printing in 5 days, the idea is basically on white, they have 10 items, cameras, lenses, video cameras, they need to be prominently displayed in the shot but they want to the shots to stand out and make people say WOW and stop and stare, they will be backlit on the trade show floor at about 7 feet, and photographers will be walking over to them and looking to complain about the detail of the cameras at the pixel level of an eyelash that is now 1 1/2 inches wide and 5 inches long. Do photographers do that???? Not us we would never pixel peep like that when at a trade show looking at what the new cameras can do I mean really not a photographer?

OK, what's the budget? Not anywhere near enough for most major agencies. Of course.. So I get on the phone and call some agents I am friends with and see who's around, I make some calls to some models I am friends with and see who is available without breaking contract and is interested in doing a few hours for a shoot at the price offered. I have some great friends and the agents say sure, we can get you someone, and I have some to choose from. I pick the ones I want and show the people at the trade show the last options for the one spot left, they pick one and we are off. I get a stylist, and run around giving them some ideas of what I want, not clothes but colors and something interesting to stand out more than a fashion statement, we need to say WOW not Vogue! And I hire two make up artists I know that can make it. I shoot 4 a day two days, lucky most are friends so we schedule those who can do early early and those that are booked later in the day and we shoot. I go through and pick out and retouch my favorites making sure I pick at least one of each item, and a few variations (not everything was on the white, and I preferred those not, so I retouched them and added them in the mix) with same items also on white so they had what they had wanted as well to choose from.

I attached them (12 shots total) to an email, and sent it. I followed up with the rest of the shoot for them to look through. They choose from the initial 12 I already did the basic retouch from (its hard to see something that is perfectly retouched and drama added and than look at the raw's and find one you like, I know that which is why I pick and retouch the ones I like to show them, it kind of works in my favor since I want what I know is good there, and I have said and still say I am probably a better editor (actually able to look through and throw out the trash and keep only what's good not the more recent editor which is becoming another way of saying retoucher) Than I am a photographer, I can immediately pick out what's bad and what's left I can very quickly find what's best and discard the rest. The shots were put through a major skin overhaul and punch added and files upsampled to printsize and sharpened, I made 12x18inch proofs for color matching, and delivered the files to the printer myself.

One, perhaps my favorite is here of a very good friend of mine



At the show the following week and all looked great!

Easy to do, twice as stressful, mainly because what was I told to do? and I quote, "we like what you do, so do that on white and make sure the names are very visible, and do whatever, thanks. "

Somedays I prefer to have a picture drawn with crayons, whose lighting did not have to conform to the laws of physics, and which seems to have 10 light sources and no shadows, and have someone to say make it look like that! To which I reply, some post work may be needed, but NO PROBLEM! Very Happy

Now I can't promise the rest of my posts will be so short

(I am kidding.....That's a joke.....I jest.....This is without a doubt the longest post I have ever had the uncomfortable job of typing not on my keyboard which would have at least made it easier to type, but rather on my phone, lucky it has a keyboard, although designed for GI Joe size fingers)

Any questions? Feel free to ask Brooks, hopefully he can answer Laughing

Again I was kidding, if I don't see any here feel free to drop me an email with any anytime, link on my site somewhere. And yes this left many steps out but the main flow is there, all the rest is really a shoot by shoot change that occurs as scope and budget changes.
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EL PIC
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brooks wrote:
OK, this is how it usually works here. I'll pretend that the client has no clue ...



What Brooks says is the most correct and the way to start these days.
It is always a Custom Fit for the Client Ad agency Budget.
What Steve E. stated above is a classical NYC senario that is also a model for our Europe ad agency clients but is somewhat dying in the US market due to over supply and competivness. The Job market in the US has changed and is changing still. There are now way too many photogs models. Its over supply and super saturated. NYC will follow suit w LA and then Europe will follow that. Most photogs have very poor insight to Biz Mgmt and the current changing market.

If its a high dollar shoot w an ad agency working for actual client ...
Then give a cost estimate of models at $100 + / hr {depends greatly on model rank and status}; Photog at $300 + / hour ; MUA at $ 100 / hr ; FUA at $200 / hr ; Retouch at $200 / hour ; set construction at xxx per hour ; reuse and rights at xxx per hour ; and of course number of hours for job total.
This could be a $10,000 - $50,000 estimate for a days shoot.
Most ad agencies know this and will start you with a work rec and art director storyboard. You then get to start the project ...

If its a mid to low dollar shoot with an agency or client {and this is getting more common} ... do as above and watch the $$ line. You may have to reduce rates or scale. You will prob double as talent scout {use your daughter}, art director, set constructor, even MUA/FUA {better to use your wife or significant other}. Gone and going are the '1970's of Estee Lauder paying Victor S $3000 / hour. Often w low dollar budgets you are best to walk if you can not reach compromise with reality and costs. These lower dollar shoots are mostly w client, actual photographer and fewer in the middle. Low dollar shoots are done with money up front and billing after the job is for high price agencies above.
Tell low dollar friends they get this rate as part of cash upfront.


When you do start ... make sure you have done Murphy's law risk analyiss and think all will go wrong and fail. This includes talent and hardware/software. If you plan well for risk ... its just a simple shoot.
Just do it ... but its wise to do outtakes from the storyboard and present to client as plan B and C. Plan B and C will often save your ass, get you better rates, and shows you deserve repeat Biz.

About Clients and Art Directors ... They often get in on the shoot either in person or w digital internet connections. They often want to approve such and often get in the way. But they are your bread and butter so spread it carefull. If they want to approve from the comfort of their own office - you need to submit digital proofs at the shoot time. This is not too painfull but often what they say is ... You might want to hit Jack Daniels some as you chat ... Think twice before you talk ... Drink some more ...

Good Photo Tips ... Its BEFORE the shoot with plan, storyboard, sketches, and color wheel.
If you dont see the photos before the shoot you are a picture taker and not a creator. Photoshop should be visioned before the camera and not relied upon to fix mistakes.

Thoughts about retouching ... Use the best models possible !!! Retouch to a minimum and if they show up w red eyes or pimples ... blacklist them from future work. Good modeling starts well before the shoot with Visine, facials, no party before, and steam mummy wraps. Remember you are charging per hour for this and the client should not pay to fix models faults. Steve E example above is a PS before and after trick and not what you expect from a professional or even amature model/mua and photog. Sheeesk ... The value of PS is in changing the backgrounds, adding products, logos per results of the proofs at client agency review below and not making dog models pretty.

When you present to agency or client ...
Present proofs {good proofs} per the storyboard then the outakes if not pleased or they ask to see them. Art directors and often clients like to think its their idea and are control freaks ... let them think it as long as they pay you well ...

Modern Innovation in clients and photogs ... The upcoming companies are doing shoots that combine marketing with the shoot and campaign.
Imagine a major teen retailer that promotes fashion shows around the country. The local consumers then buy their clothes and register for the show and shoot. The show and shoot is done in the mall. It creates great excitement and everyone buys. There is a Frenzie about the whole event. Yes, Its a roadshow with minimum talent and training but quickly becoming the standard thing in the US market.
In Dallas ... XXX company even uses their own sales girls as models.
Some retailers are even having models and photogs send in their own stuff via the internet that they can use in campaigns.
With so much volume they can pick and choose while getting good work at minimum $$$ and effort.

Most Important is the Biz of the shoot ... now days almost any GWC can pull off a good shoot. I have seen great talent with minimum training ...
Kinda glad I am semi retired in this market and made my fortune before this 21st Century market demise.
The Photo market today no longer is the career choice for those wanting to make millions of dollars or be a high profiler.
Only the equipment / software makers are doing that now as well as those selling a false dream in photo modeling etc.

The Glamour Fashion Photographer days of the 20th Century are over ... Snap out of it !!!
Companies in the US are laying off in record numbers.
Ad budgets are going Low and Lower Dollar.
That cost reduction - "right sizing" includes shoots of all kind.
Smell the coffee ... its starting to smell burnt !!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the glamor fashion photographers days of the 20th, I can only say, watch TV much? Photographers are the new rockstars! The shot, ANTM, PR, and about 10 other shows around, fashion network? world of fashion channel?

I am very happy these days, the low level work is gone overseas or to machines, the low mid level is beyond competitive with every person with a rebel being a photographer and not needing much from it since they have no big investment in equipment, education or time put in, so they take jobs for well below market value, they do not even know what the market value should be and that eats at the prices of those who do. The super high level is still making a killing as the ad budgets get higher since media is more global and widespread and everyone needs images to sell. The high mid range which I tend to fit snuggly has created a market that is making more than ever because we can show the clients that we can produce more for less through technology, and the real clients are conscious of that so the rate scheme went to a percent of media budget which makes us more than ever but shows a very small percent of the actual budget that makes everyone feel less gouged and they sleep better at night because of that. I am quite happy making good money doing little work and what the work is is hardly something anyone can complain about, though we still manage to do it well and often Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StephenEastwood wrote:
As for the glamor fashion photographers days of the 20th, I can only say, watch TV much? Photographers are the new rockstars! The shot, ANTM, PR, and about 10 other shows around, fashion network? world of fashion channel?


Very Happy

LMFAO - Thats exactly where glamour fashion has gone and is going ... You are a Star with Janice Dickinson, America's Top Model, and headed to be an American Idol with an APS GWC camera.
Paint yourself as the likes of Victor Skrebneski http://www.pdngallery.com/legends/legends12/
or Richard Avedon or ...
and we will all bow down to your great majesty.
Who are you anyway ???
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StephenEastwood
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Joined: 22 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny, I am the young guy who is smart enough to know when to take advantage of the marketing someone else is already doing on my behalf. While the great majestic nature of photographers of the past may be changing, the new generation needs to realize that if we want to be rich in this new business and demand the huge numbers we do not need talent, per se, we need personality and we need celebrity! ANTM has shown thats far more important to making money, people will buy anything if its advertised the right way, and why would I want to fight the trend? I much rather work it to my advavtange and move upward with it. Anything else would be too much work for not enough return, I am part of the lazy generation, I prefer doing much too little for way too much in return. I like that I get to raise my rates for no reason other than someone saw me on TV or read a story on me in a magazine, I woudl not have it any other way, why would I? I would have to relearn all the rules if they changed. Here is the last article that raised my rates even more, http://stepheneastwood.com//me/dslr_eastwood2.pdf Your beliefs may vary Surprised
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EL PIC
Just Getting Warmed Up


Joined: 26 Jan 2008
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Location: Austin Texas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StephenEastwood wrote:
Funny, I am the young guy who is smart enough to know when to take advantage of the marketing someone else is already doing on my behalf. Surprised


You appear to be one of those who ride on the coat tails of others and promote yourself in the process.
Not bad for being un schooled ...
So enlighted us more ...
We now know you are.
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StephenEastwood
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you are seeming to be one of those who can't make it,, or cannot adapt to the new way of doing things, and blame the times for your hardships? Should I sit here and complain I am broke and the hacks are making money because they are on TV and I have skills and should be heralded for my artistic merit? last time I checked most artists died broke and became famous in the afterlife, I am not a theist so that does not hold well for my train of thought.

I would love to see some of your work, what type of work do you do normally? What has your schooling taught you? From MM and the link there I don't see much of the dillards work which I am assuming is more catalog in nature given your market, or Bebe, Elizabeth Arden?. I would like to see it so I know with whom I am conversing.
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EL PIC
Just Getting Warmed Up


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When others of statue promote you - you will be someting !
Untill then blast your name and website they might take note ...

If u dont know my cloak of darkness or real name you are not schooled my unknown friend.
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StephenEastwood
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I am not a believer in religion nor am I a believer that a great photographer of tremendous merit would have two profiles up and running with pictures that are at best average and feel a need to hide their true identity, I may sooner have belief in a god that wont reveal himself for at least there is some evidence that if he did create it all its pretty impressive. Now while I do not understand it, I will accept you need to stay anonymous so if you prefer to direct email me thats fine, my email is not hard to find.

And I am not sure if you have read enough of my posts in other forums to know that I am not one to insult or be antagonistic in general, so I do not want this to come across as such, but rather I want to understand with whom I am discussing matters since it is far to common for those to hide behind the guise of superiority without any real world knowledge in the industry from which they pretend to know, I am not one who takes it at that without question, nor do I attack those who offer valid critique regardless of the skill they themselves possess in the field, as I am all too aware that one does not need to be a great pastry chef to know the difference between a great brownie and a piece of cow feces molded into a rectangle.
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StephenEastwood
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EL PIC wrote:
When others of statue promote you - you will be someting !



who would count? Canon? Broncolor? Phase? or need it be someone in a different field? TV is obviously not a good choice since you seem against it,. So I am curious?
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EL PIC
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You just don't realize who, what, when.
Educated in God and beliving in are very different things !
Even those with proper education and who do not relish the teachings understand such and just wish to take the broader road.
You disappoint me greatly w your threads - so do your photo crit skills.
But then as you say - you are young and need wisdom.
One can learn great things from 1st grade students with first cameras.
Try it at a local school near you. You will learn much, apply, and crit.
180 degrees from the time you introduced yourself.
So what happened ???
It must be the masses of a...s on the Internet and 21C photo.
I often blame it on the internet and almost regret creating the big D.
What is most amazing of the current market is how many self made icons there are in the world. Self made stars as you state and id yourself above.
This is my last post on this subject cause you turned a good thread into someting moresuitable for Mayhem. Watch out Brooks. You do belong. Not sure if here is the place. Go watch TV.
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StephenEastwood
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Joined: 22 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right its no longer worth responding, and I am not sure why you still feel a need to remain anonymous just always makes me curious what one has to hide. I am free to see who I am and people can base opinions on that, I do not pretend to be all high and mighty, I am not ashamed to be and become rich and famous because of something like the TV generation, today more of the spending generation now know Nigel Barker than Avedon and in the real world we are living in thats good, as one is no longer with us and one can potentially be of help to them someday. Live in the past, leaves more for us in the future. I hope the best for you. Smile
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Brooks Ayola
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What were we talking about again?

This isn't that other forum, guys. Keep it civil.
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